[ from the Greenbelt Forum email list] From: "Dave Hefford" Subject: Re: Evolution and Creation for Christians Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:20:07 +0100 > > My apologies for that red herring. I just get annoyed by bad spelling - I'm according to a "survival of the fittest" theory spelling will get worse because the "literate" are using spell checkers. Can anyone think of any reasons why this stuff matters? I suspect there are applications of "evolutionary theory" in real life but I can't think of what Christian impact they have or why a creationalist view point would change things. So point one of does it matter - Do evolution / creation beliefs force one into an animal rights stand point? Looking back at threads - Point 2 "you and me baby aren't nothing but mammals so lets do it like they do on the discovery channel" Can a evolutionist / creationalist Christian question this sentiment with equal authority (and whether it should be played from mainstage)? Discuss (or don't).... Dave PS for any programmers out there The reason why only 30% of human DNA performs any useful function is that the rest of it is comments. Once we decode a typical human genome, we see that the contents begin as follows: === /* HUMAN_DNA.H * * Human Genome * Version 2.1 * * (C) God */ /* Revision history: * * 0000-00-01 00:00 1.0 Adam. * 0000-00-02 10:00 1.1 Eve. * 0000-00-03 02:11 1.2 Added penis code to male version. A bit messy -- * will require a rewrite later on to make it neater. * 0017-03-12 03:14 1.3 Added extra sex drive to male.h; took code from * elephant-dna.c * 0145-10-03 16:33 1.4 Removed tail. * 1115-00-31 17:20 1.5 Shortened forearms, expanded brain case. * 2091-08-20 13:56 1.6 Opposable thumbs added to hand() routine. * 2501-04-09 14:04 1.7 Minor cosmetic improvements -- skin colour made * darker to match my own image. * 2909-07-12 02:21 1.8 Dentition inadequate; added extra 'wisdom' teeth. * Must remember to make mouth bigger to compensate. * 4501-12-31 14:18 1.9 Increase average height. * 5533-02-12 17:09 2.0 Added gay option, triggered by high population * density, to try and slow the overpopulation problem. * 6004-11-04 16:11 2.1 Made forefinger narrower to fit hole in centre of * CD. */ /* Standard definitions */ #define SEX male #define HEIGHT 1.84 #define MASS 68 #define RACE caucasian /* Include inherited traits from parent DNA files. * * Files must be pre-processed with MENDEL program to provide proper * inheritance features. */ #include "mother.h" #include "father.h" /* Set up sex-specific functions and variables */ #include /* Kludged code -- I'll re-design this lot and re-write it as a proper * library sometime soon. */ struct genitals { #ifdef MALE Penis *jt; #endif /* G_spot *g; Removed for debugging purposes */ #ifdef FEMALE Vagina *p; #endif } /* Initialization bootstrap routine -- called before DNA duplication. * Allocates buffers and sets up protein file pointers */ DNA *zygote_initialize(Sperm *, Ovum *); /* MAIN INITIALIZATION CODE * * Returns structures containing pre-processed phenotypes for the organism * to display at birth. * * Will be improved later to make output less ugly. */ Characteristic *lookup_phenotype(Identifier *i); === ...and so on. Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:09:31 +0100 From: John Pettigrew Subject: Re: Evolution and Creation for Christians In a previous message, Dave Hefford wrote: > Can anyone think of any reasons why this stuff matters? I suspect there are > applications of "evolutionary theory" in real life but I can't think of > what Christian impact they have or why a creationalist view point would > change things. I suggested a few problems that I think Creationism has for christian belief. Various problems have also been suggested to arise from an evolutionary position, but I'll leave them to Martin to raise :-) > So point one of does it matter - Do evolution / creation beliefs force one > into an animal rights stand point? Evolution itself doesn't affect the debate one way or the other - it just describes how things came to be as they are. The issue is, of course, the value that we attribute to animals, which will depend on why we think the animals were created and the relationship we are supposed to have with them. So the philosophy you adopt, and its basis, will affect the issue. > Looking back at threads - Point 2 "you and me baby aren't nothing but > mammals so lets do it like they do on the discovery channel" Can a > evolutionist / creationalist Christian question this sentiment with equal > authority (and whether it should be played from mainstage)? The evolutionist (i.e. one whose philosophy is based on 'evolutionary' thinking) might not be able to. But Christians can question it, of course - we are mammals, but not only that. > Once we decode a typical human genome, we see that the contents begin as > follows: > > === > /* HUMAN_DNA.H > * > * Human Genome > * Version 2.1 > * > * (C) God > */ > > /* Revision history: LOL. You are a sad man, but I love it :-) That makes me sad, too, but hey! Would you object it I passed it on? pax et bonum John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology From: "Dave Hefford" Subject: Re: Evolution and Creation for Christians Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:38:16 +0100 > I suggested a few problems that I think Creationism has for Christian belief. > Various problems have also been suggested to arise from an evolutionary > position, but I'll leave them to Martin to raise :-) I'll look back - I have had to skim read to keep up! > > Would you object it I passed it on? I passed it on - source lost in the mists of time. There is a copyright though.. > > * (C) God > > */ :-) Dave PS Maybe the church could cash in on the copyright when the genetic engineers try to (C) their work????